Yusuke Oya(大谷友介) from Polaris and TK from Ling tosite sigure. At first glance, it might seem like an unexpected pairing. However, TK often mentions Polaris alongside Clammbon and Hanaregumi as bands he frequently listens to, indicating a sense of sympathy towards Oya's musical world. This dialogue, born from such encounters, delves into various emotions existing between light and shadow, stillness and movement, consciousness and unconsciousness, and the interplay of words and sounds. Let's listen closely to their intriguing conversation, where hints unravel the unique sensations shared by each of their music.
TK: "Nice to meet you today."
Oya: "Likewise, thank you."
TK: "I've been a big fan of Polaris and have been listening to them for a long time... So if Polaris and Ling tosite sigure were to do a joint concert, everyone would be pretty surprised, right? (laughs)"
Oya: "Well then, please do ask someday. (laughs)"
TK: "Definitely, definitely."
— When talking about the initial motivation for this dialogue, previously, when I was involved in editing TK's solo photobook ('film A moment'), we talked about the music we usually listen to, and that's when TK mentioned Polaris. It was a bit surprising, and I thought it would be nice to have a conversation with this encounter someday.
TK: "People are quite surprised when they hear that I like Polaris. It doesn't seem to match the image of Ling tosite sigure."
— How did you start listening to Polaris in the first place, TK?
TK: "I had a friend who really loved Polaris, and they introduced me to their music. Around that time, I was listening to bands like Hanaregumi, Clammbon, and Fishmans quite a bit, and Polaris had a similar vibe—really comforting music. Since then, I've been listening to them constantly. I also listen to the solo work released under the name SPENCER."
Oya: "Thank you. That makes me happy."
TK: "I usually play intense music, so I don't listen to much music in my private time. And when I do, it's mostly just piano or something quiet. But with Polaris, even when I don't feel like listening to music much, I can listen to them very naturally. It's like music that can always be by my side. So, listening to Polaris feels very natural to me."
Oya: "I understand that well, as I listen to various types of music depending on my mood, regardless of genre. The music I listen to regularly and the music I want to express aren't necessarily the same."
TK: "Exactly. Ling tosite sigure's songs are often intense and structurally complex, so I'm often thought to be a fan of progressive rock, but in reality, I hardly listen to even Western music, let alone prog. I used to listen to mainstream Japanese music like B'z or globe a lot. (laughs)"
Oya: "I feel the same way. I've always loved Japanese hardcore. In high school, I was really into the underground scene in Kansai, even playing in bands covering songs by bands like Aka Renga. Over time, it gradually evolved into the sound we have now."
TK: "I guess everyone wants to explore their musical background when presented with music, just like that. But from the perspective of playing music, when you're actually performing and bringing out sounds from your instrument, you don't really consciously think about your background, right?"
Oya: "Yeah, not at all."
TK: "You're just focused on the sounds coming out."
Oya: "What you just said, TK, really resonates with the music of Ling tosite sigure. It feels like you're not trying to express a specific genre of music, but rather unconsciously weaving something from within yourself, resulting in that music. It's even more pronounced in your solo work, I think."
TK: "Thank you. When I make music, it's truly unconscious. That's why I often struggle during interviews. It's too unconscious at times. (laughs)"
Oya: "Like when they ask, 'How did you create this song?'"
TK: "Yeah, there are times when it's difficult. (laughs) That's why when I read magazines and see everyone giving such articulate answers, I think it's amazing. I don't rely on any specific image to create songs or lyrics, so explaining it is quite challenging."
Oya: "It's tough, indeed. I've also moved away from making music according to a concept lately."
TK: "It's easier during interviews when you have something like 'I wanted to convey this message' to rely on."
Oya: "True. (laughs)"
TK: "They often ask based on the song titles, right? In our case, because our band name is quite unique, we get asked about that a lot too."
Oya: "That's right. (laughs)"
TK: "Thankfully, that has mostly stopped now. (laughs) So, when asked about the image of a song, I try to explain it in my own way, but I often feel a discrepancy between what I initially imagined and what eventually comes out."
— How long does it take for the image of a song to become clear to you?
TK: "In my case, I don't really grasp the final image until the very end. Ultimately, it's when mastering is finished and the song is complete that I think, 'Was this the kind of thing I wanted to create?' So, when making a song, I often lack a clear goal, which makes it difficult to delve into. It's good to have a vague idea of what you want to create, even if it's just a rough shape in your mind. I start by playing the piano or guitar, letting the sounds guide me, gradually progressing from there."
Oya: "Allowing the song to progress as it wants to."
TK: "Yes, exactly. But sometimes I hit a wall along the way and lose sight of the direction I want to go. I always feel like I'm in agony while making an album. (laughs)"
Oya: "If you already knew the destination beforehand, it would be so much easier, but then there would be no point in doing it, right? It's because there's no overarching theme or message that you can reach places even you couldn't imagine..."
TK: "But because of that, the possibilities (of where to go) are infinitely wide."
Oya: "That's why we're in agony every time. (laughs)"
TK: "How does it feel to restart Polaris activities after such a long time?"
Oya: "Yeah, we took a 6-year break. (laughs) Taking that much time off, it feels like starting a new band in some ways. It made me realize once again how interesting being in a band is."
TK: "After a 6-year hiatus, did you find yourself forgetting how to write songs? I also do solo work, so while listening to Polaris's new album ('Shikisai'), I wondered, 'What kind of conflicts would I have if it were me?'"
Oya: "I did find myself forgetting some things, especially on a sensory level, so I was a little confused at first. But then, I realized at one point that this was a complete reset. Trying to get close to past images when making music doesn't make sense. If we shape what naturally emerges from me and (Yuzuru) Kashihara, that will connect to Polaris's identity."
TK: "Once my work is finished, I don't usually listen to it, but occasionally, when I do listen back, I think to myself, 'I could never make a song like this again' for every track. I start to worry that I won't be able to write songs anymore. But when I actually start creating, they always turn out to be my own songs, for better or for worse. I realize that I haven't really changed each time."
Oya: "I totally get that. (laughs)"
TK: "Because I don't aim for anything specific when making music, when I try to recall, I can't remember anything."
Oya: "Maybe it's because it's too much of yourself that you can't recall anything."
TK: "Yeah, that's true. I used to think that things I couldn't remember were just random, but recently, I've come to think that maybe I'm hidden within those things I can't remember."
Oya: "I often think that maybe only about 1% of what humans can create is done with their conscious minds. The remaining 99% seems to be created by some force at work, even though we're not consciously aware of it. Especially when we've had a great live show or written a great song—those moments when you can't attribute any meaning to it."
TK: "Definitely. It feels almost entirely sensory to me. When making an album, it's all about a series of moments, really. It's the accumulation of those moments that becomes the work."
Oya: "TK, you also take photographs, right? I wonder if there are similarities between the moments when you take photos and when you create music."
TK: "Yes, that's right. However, with photography, you can physically preserve the moment. While music remains as a finished piece of work, the reasons behind choosing certain phrases or melodies don't really stick in your memory. But with photography, they do. When the photo is developed, I remember every moment I pressed the shutter. It's quite mysterious."
Oya: "I got to see your photobook, and just like the impression of your songs, it felt like your world was being expressed directly through the photos. I thought that was really nice. When do you feel like taking photos?"
TK: "I don't always carry a camera with me, but when I travel abroad and see a scene that I want to share with someone, I instinctively press the shutter. I enjoy both taking and viewing photos. While I don't listen to music much once it's finished, I tend to look at photos for quite a while."
Oya: "I'm the same with photos. With music, I often listen to fragments that I've made."
TK: "Fragments, listen to them a lot. (laughs)"
Oya: "Yeah, listen to them a lot. (laughs)"
TK: "In Polaris' comeback single ('光る音 Hikaru Oto'), there's also the demo version of 'Hikaru Oto' included (※ 'Hikaru Oto' [Berlin Demo Version]). I really love that version too. There's a sparkling feeling unique to demos, right? It's like a beauty that's somewhat known yet unknown, still figuring out where it's headed. When I'm creating, I only listen to my own songs. It's like, how much do I love myself? (laughs) But once it's finished, I stop listening."
Oya: "What's up with that?"
TK: "For me, it's the feeling of completing a milestone, like the song is finished. In a sense, it feels like my mission there is done."
Oya: "Yeah, I get that. It's a bit presumptuous to confirm that something has fulfilled its mission."
TK: "Deciding on an endpoint requires a strange kind of energy. So, during mastering, for example, listening can be a bit tough. When it's finished, there's a rush of exhaustion. (laughs)"
Oya: "I noticed from the credits of your work that you handle all the recording and engineering. I thought that was amazing."
TK: "Oh no, not at all. I'm just learning as I go. I've always had this tendency to thoroughly pursue something when I think, 'I could probably do that.' I never particularly wanted to be an engineer, but mixing was just part of my songwriting process, so within that, I searched for various techniques to achieve the sound I wanted. Oya-san, you also record your solo work yourself, right?"
Oya: "Yeah. With solo work, recording feels like part of the songwriting process. It's fun to do the work yourself. For better or for worse, it becomes entirely you."
TK: "By recording and engineering myself, things tend to become a bit skewed, but those professional, polished results are everywhere, right?"
Oya: "That's true."
TK: "No matter how much professional technique I acquire, I think the end result will still be somewhat skewed. I hope interesting chemistry arises from that."
Oya: "But that's what makes it the most interesting, I think. Sometimes what a normal engineer might delete turns out to be surprisingly good. I often clash with engineers over things like that. When I say, 'The air between those sounds feels good,' they might respond with, 'We cut unnecessary frequencies in the mix.' I'm like, 'But that's the music!'"
TK: "I often wonder, 'What exactly is unnecessary frequency?' But you know, things that come from such places are purely what I want to create."
Oya: "If you abandon that, eventually, you might even wonder why you bother making music in the first place."
TK: "I truly believe that."
Oya: "Things that naturally emerge from within oneself are usually stronger."
— I read in an interview somewhere that recently, Oya-kun, when writing lyrics, has been increasingly using words that naturally come to him, rather than just 'la la la' or gibberish English.
Oya: "That's been more of a gradual change over the past decade or so. Initially, I also used to create melodies with 'la la la,' but at some point, I realized, 'I'm actually saying something.' So, I started forcing myself to articulate words. Words that come out when you're trying to say something tend to hit the core more than words thought out over time. I call it 'descended words' (laughs). The lyrics of this work were mostly created like that. Of course, they need some adjustments, but..."
TK: "I also use a similar approach."
Oya: "That's the feeling, right? I looked at the lyrics and thought so."
TK: "When I'm doing solo performances, I tend to mold the words to fit the melody a bit more, but when performing with the band, there are moments when a word I definitely want to sing immediately comes to mind, and I expand from there. Since these words come spontaneously, there are often many things I can't explain even if asked in an interview. But the moment I utter those words, there's undoubtedly a feeling within me that I want to sing/convey those words."
Oya: "If you try to overly assign meaning to those words and balance everything too much, what you want to convey may blur, and it might become something you don't want to sing. I think there are various ways to deliver a song, and it's truly different for each person, but I hope we can convey what we want through the entire song, including the spaces between notes. It's similar to the discussion we had earlier about engineering."
— TK-san, you're going to Berlin in a few days, right?
TK: "Yeah, that's right. Since I'm going, I thought I'd ask Oya-san, who lives in Berlin, about various things (laughs)."
Oya: "Sure, feel free to ask anything (laughs)."
TK: "How long have you been living in Berlin, Oya-san?"
Oya: "I moved there in February 2010, so it's been about three and a half years now."
TK: "Did you feel like you were looking for a place to create?"
Oya: "Yeah, kinda. Since my twenties, I've always thought that you can make music anywhere. But until my mid-thirties, when I was active in the Japanese music scene cycle, it felt like it required a big decision to do that. However, when Polaris went on hiatus, I had relatively more time, so I decided to travel to various places for a long time. Berlin happened to be one of the places I visited by chance. But I never really thought about living in Berlin at first. It was more like a transit destination for a few days."
TK: "What other cities were on your list?"
Oya: "Others were New York and such. But New York is similar to Tokyo in atmosphere."
TK: "Time seems to move fast there, right?"
Oya: "And there are many frustrated people."
TK: "London seems to be the same too (laughs)."
Oya: "In the Nordic countries, it's nice and relaxing, but being too relaxed is also not quite right. Hawaii Island was also good. Not the 'Waikiki' that celebrities go to, but the other side of Hawaii."
TK: "Where true nature remains."
Oya: "Yeah. Surrounded by nature and with a relaxed flow of time, it's the best place to live, but it's impossible to make music there (laughs). I would definitely stop doing it (laughs)."
TK: "The length of the songs would double (laughs)."
Oya: "Instead of releasing an album every six years, it might become one song every six years (laughs)."
TK: "Moderate stress or stimulation might be necessary for creative activities, after all."
Oya: "In that sense, Berlin, which has a moderate mix of countryside and urban vibes peculiar to Europe, was just the right balance for me. I like how the good places and the tacky places are mixed in an exquisite way."
TK: "Is that so (laughs)?"
Oya: "Even in Berlin, there are stylish areas like Daikanyama, but in those places, you can see people walking around confidently, like Hulk Hogan naturally cutting off the sleeves of their chemical-washed denim jackets (laughs)."
TK: "Hahaha."
Oya: "But no one cares. That's what I like about it."
TK: "London has a similar vibe too. People in long coats stroll around, while someone in a tank top casually waits for the bus. The feeling of 'I am who I am' and not paying too much attention to the surroundings feels really comfortable."
Oya: "That feeling is really nice, isn't it (laughs)?"
TK: "Was it relatively smooth until you moved to Berlin?"
Oya: "Yeah, I guess so. I prepared for about 2 to 3 months and thought, 'Alright, let's live there!'"
TK: "Impressive (laughs)."
Oya: "I thought I'd figure it out once I got there (laughs)."
TK: "How was the language barrier?"
Oya: "At first, it was tough. When you're going to live there, you have to go through resident registration and other official procedures. But naturally, all the documents were in German. The officials would hand them to you with a blank expression, and since I couldn't speak German, it was obvious they were getting irritated (laughs). But there were people who helped me out. I realized that somehow, things work out. So, I rented an apartment."
TK: "How about everyday music production compared to Japan? Like housing conditions?"
Oya: "In Japan, if the neighbors find the sound noisy, complaints come immediately, and even in parks, there are signs prohibiting music. In that sense, Germany is very tolerant. There's a level of respect for people expressing themselves that you wouldn't find in Japan."
TK: "Music is deeply rooted there. Did you experience any changes in your mindset toward making music after moving to Berlin?"
Oya: "My stance on making music changed drastically. I realized that it's okay to go at my own pace and that's the most important thing. I learned that I should just express what I'm thinking and feeling at that moment. Moving to Berlin made me realize that I used to worry about many things while in Japan."
TK: "So, you've created a more music-focused environment."
Oya: "Yeah. I can concentrate a lot more, but on the flip side, I also felt like I might have been too focused before. It's like realizing that even the time spent drinking beer is important. That's also related to music. I've always been somewhat stoic, but I've come to realize that a certain level of casualness is also important."
TK: "I could use that kind of feeling too (laughs)."
Oya: "So, I've reduced the mentality of 'I have to create music.' Instead, I've increased the desire to create music, and I think that's the best."
TK: "Originally, that's the best approach."
Oya: "Yeah. It's like the sound of my footsteps while walking has changed from before. Just like the sound of shoes when walking eagerly and naturally walking are different, now, I feel like my footsteps sound really good. My feelings have become easier when it comes to making music."
TK: "Having a good environment for making music is crucial after all."
Oya: "How many days will you be in Berlin?"
TK: "About 10 days this time. I'm planning to shoot and compose music while traveling."
— Is the song for your solo?
TK: "Yes, it is. Primarily for acoustic performances. I've never taken an instrument with me overseas before, so this time, I thought it would be interesting to bring a small guitar and create songs with just my voice and the instrument there. At first, I was debating whether to go to London or New York, but since I received the offer for this conversation and thought, 'Oh, Oya-san lives in Berlin,' I decided on Berlin. It's three days before departure, and I still haven't booked accommodation yet (laughs)."
Oya: "But you'll be fine. Once you go, everything will work out."
TK: "That's right (laughs). After hearing your story, I feel that way. Oops, sorry for talking so much about Berlin (laughs)."
Oya: "No worries at all."
TK: "Let's get back to talking about Polaris (laughs). Have you already started thinking about the next project?"
Oya: "Actually, we're still recording."
TK: "Oh, really?"
Oya: "Yeah. This mini-album we're releasing now is like presenting songs that are completed at this moment in time. Basically, I don't have any stock of complete songs."
TK: "I don't have much stock either, so albums end up including all the songs I've managed to finish at that time. But even then, I only manage around 9 songs. Albums contain everything about myself at that time. So, having a stock of songs is challenging."
Oya: "Because they become outdated."
TK: "Exactly. That's why I can't make adult decisions like 'Let's put this song in the next project because it didn't make it in time,' or something like that (laughs). It really makes me realize that I can't do it any other way. I envy everyone else's way of doing things. It's hard to change."
Oya: "It's hard indeed."
TK: "That's why, whether you're making music as Polaris or as a solo artist, it'll naturally become the music of Polaris or your solo music, right?"
Oya: "That's true."
TK: "But it's strange how it happens unconsciously."
Oya: "That's why the idea of aiming for something when making music has become less and less. Because even if you try to do it, it often ends up becoming your own music."
TK: "There have been times when I've thought about writing lyrics like a fictional story, but I end up giving up halfway every time (laughs)."
Oya: "It happens (laughs)."
TK: "Both the sounds I create and the words I produce are squeezed out from the unconscious part of me. Ultimately, I can't control it myself."
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